History of women do not have. Herstorie are not sticking. Women not in the textbooks, their monuments are not at all square, we have few named streets in their name. Stories about his Babkach find somewhere on the margins of history about the men - heroes. Stories of women need to unearth, find, search, play. This requires great effort. Effort, which is rarely undertaken. On the Polish market, we have enough readership of books about the history of women, especially enjoys the new, marvelous position Literary Publishing: "Sisters Malinowski, a modern woman in the early twentieth century." The author - Grazyna Kubica, anthropologist, restores to us the fate of women who appeared in the pages of the diary, "Bronislaw Malinowski. Take the effort necessary to write the history of women, the story of our grandmothers, our przodkiń, her history.
"This is the story told by women, woman, man and the title is here only a source of inspiration, rather than a general sense. I want to know these women for their own sake, I want to get into their world to know it, to taste, pomieszkać in it. I also want to find some myself, but not those instrumentalizując. I want us all retain their identity (though I know it's impossible), because I'm far enough away that I am the granddaughter of late, it's a good prospect "- Grazyna Kubica says
" Malinowski Sisters "is a created from the inspiration of Bronislaw Malinowski log women's history from the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. Sophia Benówna (Szymberska), Eugenia Bentkowska (Zielinska), Maria Czaplicka, Helena Czerwijowska (Protasewiczowa), Sophia Dembowska (Romerowa) Halina Nusbaumówna, Paul and Dora Wasserberg, Angela and Charles Zagorski, Mary Zaborowski, Mary and Sophia Zielewiczówny, Otolia Zubrzycka (Retingerowa) - writer, painter, taught - capable, well-educated - almost forgotten today. We had to reach out to archives, libraries, browse books and lists Reported students, talk to people, look in attics, in private collections and ... the cemeteries. We had an extraordinary passion for women and antropolożki that was the story of who they were, from which emanated families and matured, gained knowledge of how traveling and worked. As they left, why have forgotten about them and what gives us today, meeting with them.
Czerwińska Interview with Anna Grazyna Kubica
Anna Czerwinska: Let's start from the end. You write about women who appear in "Journal" Bronislaw Malinowski, as of their przodkiniach. In the epilogue he writes you that he feels "the granddaughter of late," these women, also refers to his own grandmother, to the memory of babkach. It's very much like us - Feminoteka. We'd prepared a special service at Grandma's Day - readers were sending us their stories about babciach. Just there to play, to extract from oblivion, for the first time to tell the story of women.
Grazyna Kubica I also have outsourced such work to my students! One of the work that had to bring to pass, was the life story of her grandmother. Very interesting are the stories and for me, and for them. Remember babciach, recreate their history. They especially like to fall in memory, in history. Grandparents argue somehow - somewhere to work, doing something. After babciach is a picture or not. Therefore, need to take care of that memory to protect this heritage.
As for the story about my grandmother, then I used it in a book of feminist and literary reasons. She was there, I need to create a continuum of female metaphors, namely the kilimu, who at the end of life my grandmother created from the remaining wool, and I She also spun the whole story.
AC: Yes. Grandma is such a "dot over and"! This indicates the importance of matrylinearność. And if you can say what is in the general sense of the history of women playing?
Grazyna Kubica First of all - women must save, create, play, recite, because they simply do not exist. Writes Jolanta Brach-Czaina: you play the female line of tradition. It is our moral obligation.
AC: Well, how did it start? Been developing your "logs" Malinowski, at which time these women have asked you out? When you decided to take care of them?
Grazyna Kubica : There were several stages. First, even during the development of the log, when I had to find some biographical information about emerging tabs on its forms, it was annoyance at the lack of information on women. About a third-rate poet, you can find plenty of information anywhere without any problem, but about women has nothing to do! They disappear. My book shows that to play women's biographies, additional effort was needed, a big effort. My search was collecting almost detective. This first stage is the development of the Official and search for information about women.
Then I lived for some time in the world "Diaries." I helped collect material for a biography of Malinowski Michealowi Youngowi. And at the time this work, it dawned on me that as I become stories of these women do not take care of, then nobody will. And that's biography is so interesting! Besides, it is also an interesting problem: what it meant to be a woman in the early twentieth century? Woman who fights for the education that he wants to do something. It is modern. There probably triggered in me a feminist imperative.
third stage, very difficult to be honest, the investigation of the literary form of this book. A very long time I did not know how to write, how to compose. I did not mean that they were only told after the other biographies. This was true for quite some casual conversation in Literature Publishing House, when the editor Malgorzata Nycz and Lucy Kowalik something in me skatalizowały structural concept. After this conversation I went home and wrote a list of contents, in principle, in such form, in what is now in the book. Each chapter is about something else - devoted to some problem, place or event.
This book has long been with me, researching, and engaging in something else, my usual duties. Working on this book was a bit of detective, very addictive. It's also an interesting way of being in the world - I travel to places where these women lived, lived, remained. Look for their traces, is also seeking another dimension to the existing seats. Important in this is that I am anthropologist, so I happened to these people in a way that treats anthropological. I wanted to learn everything about them, and thus not only about the person, but also about places, about time, people close to them, or cultural context. As I write in the introduction, there were field tests over the past.
On the other hand, was very important for me, the moral aspect of the case - or am I now that I do, or that nobody will do and this will not be. I am convinced that many of the works of my heroines, I really only read or seen. And perhaps no one will never read it and see.
AC: Was there any character that has been omitted, because you could not find information about it?
Grazyna Kubica : Yes, including Malinowski's first love - Cybulska Eve, the daughter of Napoleon Cybulski, a professor at the Jagiellonian University. I found about it only some bits of information, too little, so she could be one of the "sisters" though of course I remember about her.
Generally speaking, I wanted to write about what remains after the man, what remains after the woman. It was my methodological plan. I wanted to be treated in each chapter on each of my characters and fill in the "Questionnaire" in its entirety. Also note that nothing I could find or that have failed to respond to the question.
AC: How do you think if your heroine zrozumiałyby this job? My impression is that these women were, themselves seek such rozpłynięcia in fact, as indeed it seems to me Ms. annoyed. Is zrozumiałyby so that it is important for us today, to play them?
Grazyna Kubica do not know. It seems to me that they understand their descendants. Daughter Otylii Retingerowej - Wanda Puchalska and Andrew Romer, a descendant of Sophia Romerowa who read passages about their mothers. Much they liked the book. Andrew Romer even stated that I am writing too well. But this may be due to the fact that he has, however, male perspective, and I look completely different to this woman. I'm interested in some problems, for which he would have probably paid no attention.
It seems to me that contemporary feminist perspective is quite different than the then. Maybe my character would have something against me, but on the other hand, seems to me that we would dogadały, agreed.
AC: Because I am curious, how much they wanted to live in this woman's world. In this world dominated by the Stas and weapons (Witkiewicz and Malinowski)?
Grazyna Kubica : And Conrad.
AC: Exactly. To what extent were they able to see this place. My impression is that these girls are not exactly know what to, do with your life. Only Czaplicka here is a place he struggled.
Grazyna Kubica : Yes, and fell in this fight.
AC: A sister Nusbaumówny knew a nut, but this did not translate to the emancipatory activity, for example.
Grazyna Kubica : The sisters Nusbaumównymi in general was an interesting case. Their father - Professor Henry Nusbaum was a man of an open, progressive, for example, deal with the assimilation Jews. But the roles women have traditionally seen, and forbade their daughters to study. Only this "university" Orzeszkowa come into the game, ie being under the care of property.
Returning to the question, then the women in the public sphere, in the early twentieth century, there was a different situation than we are. They were very clearly visible.
it once I recognized the hat metaphor Kiedroniowej. Sophia Kirkor-Kiedroniowa of Grabskie (sister later minister), lived in Karvina Basin, moreover, right next to my grandfather, Joseph Kubica. It was a very active activist in the wake of Polishness Silesia, she was a member too, just after the war, in the National Council of Cieszyn Silesia. I remember a photo where they sit wyfraczeni, or rather wysurduczeni men and is the one, the only Kiedroniowa in the hat! This hat is so terribly visible!
These women were very visible in this male world. One could not escape the problem of femininity. They had to think about what it means to be a woman. For example, Maria Czaplicka dealing with this in his poetry and letters. She had to be defined: Is this my femininity I somehow limited or not limited, what to do with it, or you had better restrain or not? Well, that's her problem androgyniczności as a monstrous creature that has a male and female mind, body, and must somehow live with that. Then the Cartesian division between mind and body work so that it was necessary to limit the body, because right is on the side of reason. It had to deny femininity. Especially when you work in science.
AC: It was the same nut. Once gained recognition, it would head off "a bit masculine."
Grazyna Kubica : Exactly. The problem being a woman was then very important. Everything had to change, so we we existed in the public space and become invisible. Now, do not pay attention if women in the room, to which we enter. This of course works the other way: we do not see it that sometimes women do not have, or that there are not enough, for example, in the Diet. is a discussion on television, sitting a few men in suits and there is no woman. This is true even of so-called programs. cultural.
We already do not have this hat on their heads Kiedroniowej. Ie. entering into the public space, we do not feel so terribly visible and alone. But we often do not have, spreads out and no one sees.
AC: Well, because what we now mean? After all, we all have!
not remember not only the rights of women, but also does not remember about these so that we have them. Even for men. The book shows you that the men joined in the struggle for women's rights. Reminds you figure Bujwida.
Grazyna Kubica : In Krakow Bujwida figure is unknown, as well as his wife.
AC: I like most about Bujwidowej this anecdote, which puts Aneta Górnicka-Boratyńska in "Four portraits of emancipation", when she stood for election, even if women do not have the right to vote! Why do these women are lost in history? Why do historians do not pay attention to women? Do not deal with the history of women?
Grazyna Kubica : This is not a simple matter, there are several reasons. My book is the disagreement on such a course of things. First of all, the story deals with the most odkrywczymi scholars, the most innovative authors. Women, to get recognition today, but rather had to be konformistkami and customize to existing patterns of conduct, the rules in force in society, or in a specific area in which worked. Consequently, he rarely allow yourself to be innovative, to make a breakthrough, because it is threatened by marginalization, exclusion and offset outside the discourse. It seems to me the fundamental problem. Creativity of women had to bend the rules of the present, to ever be recognized. Sophia Romerowa is a good example. She's really a lot of painting, her life was very fertile creatively, but only at its end writes in his diary: "I have a wild desire to paint - paint differently than before, gaining a full brush of paint, putting it on canvas and thick lines, combining it with your finger." This is extremely significant that she discovered at the end of life, and so most would like to deal with what would have made her the most joy. She never did! It was a portrait painter, so she could not afford to madness, had to reckon with the tastes of customers.
AC: Because girls can not "wallow" in paint. The girls are polite and do not get dirty.
Grazyna Kubica : Well, yes. A similar procedure can be used in relation to Czaplicki and anthropology. It was innovative Malinowski, looking from our perspective. But then it was Czaplicka better position in the academic world, the quotations were higher, but it was more traditional anthropology. Although it is not known what she has had not committed suicide at the age of 37 years.
AC: Men in this book have a huge sense of his genius. This, of course eminent men (Witkacy, Malinowski, Conrad), but I mean the building of their own their image: they had a sense of his genius
Grazyna Kubica : Yes, his mission.
AC: And those women that do not have! As if it was inconceivable that they may be brilliant, that they can create something special (this feeling has only Czaplicka). So they bask in the glow of these men, having a feeling that most of what they can do is give dumplings Conrad ... (Otolia Retingerowa notes in his memoirs that when he first invited Conrad to the house, it gave him dumplings).
Grazyna Kubica : (laughs) But it's very good that she wrote about those dumplings! I regret that in the book that some of these women, and especially for Otolii Zagórskich Retingerowej and sisters, had so little confidence in their own creative possibilities and the only thing the self produced, it is of great memories of Conrad.
Style Retingerowej is extremely sensualistyczny. We feel this world, in which she lived. This England, the wet asphalt alleys, these dumplings are simply feel this writing. The memories Zagorska are very emotional. Angela was such a detector, emotionally, it's all depriving the nerves and so it is told. Her sister, Charles had a metaphorical style - something told me, referring to another reality. So maybe if they give them a chance, if they support this ...?
Although they did such attempts. Wierzynski for example, commissioned Karoli memories and then tried to mobilize them to continue writing. Unfortunately, to no avail.
AC: Maybe genius of these men strongly deprymowała them?
Grazyna Kubica Yes. It was also such a belief that how one writes something, it must be brilliant. As it is not brilliant, it's not worth doing anything. Maybe even genderowy aspect of the case was not an important one. Although the course work for women is much more depressing than the men.
AC: Is it me, or you with a certain indulgence writes about Witkacy and Malinowski, even through that, you write: Stasio, Bronnie, "and if he thought poor Bronnie ..."? Is it revenge for how they treat women?
Grazyna Kubica : A little, yes, but above all I was trying not to be on their knees. Peeled off the prospect of these women. It was their friend, lover, friend from childhood. And they, if they were on their knees, what were the most erotic knees.
But then I wrote more "Stas and Bronnie" than they do, because I realized I'm looking from a distance and time, and cultural heritage, which they often exert a negative impact on these women. Tragic toll. According to me, no work does not justify a negative impact on another human being. So I appreciate very badly that she committed suicide Jaczewska Jadwiga Helena Czerwijowska was this very closely, and Zosia Dembowska "survivor" only thanks to the parents that fled to Vilna, which is far enough away to his vampirism Witkacy not touched ... Although the book, I try not to make any judgments.
also tried to show the misogyny Witkiewicz. Show the finger: here it is. The "662 Bunga downs" for example. It is important to note that the icon of the avant-garde of contemporary Polish culture - Witkacy, he was a misogynist, do not be afraid of this word! Irritates me how to show women in "622 Bunga downs." Even more difficult to look at it differently when they come to know Originals, those women who used to this, he used. It makes me opposed.
AC: That's for me to understand. I read your book, I was always on the side of the heroines. Yes, it is difficult in principle to part with them. Sometimes they are annoying, but really feels very sympathetic to them. I say this as a reader, and whether you as a writer, it was difficult to say goodbye with the heroines?
Grazyna Kubica : I am with them I said goodbye! I still have some plans. Even after finishing the book, it turned out the prof. Paul Banas Wroclaw published a book about the postcard, where he used a lot of cards to Karoli Zagorska! And there is plenty of information about her! So I'm going to Wroclaw. And so it is in several other cases.
AC: Which of these women was most fascinated you? Czaplicka? You wrote a few articles about it and did an exhibition at the Ethnographic Museum ....
Grazyna Kubica : Czaplicka is familiar to me, if only because I'm anthropologist as she. In the Polish anthropology was completely forgotten figure. I wanted to do something about it. Przeryłam almost all archives in Poland and England, but even going to the United States. It's also such a burial in the history of their own discipline. Besides Czaplicka is somehow a reference point, the gender dimension is added to my interest in biography and work of Malinowski. She also wrote a really great deal, and her writings are very varied. Not only left a dry ethnographic articles, but the poems, letters, novels for young people - this is the treasure trove of great material, a reason to take its guises. Through it all, was the closest to me also, but all the heroines have been interesting for me.
AC: I actually asked at the end - the tip. You apply the book very hard to female end - the names of occupations, including in relation to each other. Was not there problems with the publishing house?
Grazyna Kubica : Forest Books is a great annexe. But the guerrilla struggle run with him since "Diary" Malinowski. It seems to me that I succeed, or put it like this: we have a mutual respect for each other (laughs) I'm hard, when it comes to female ends. It sounds bad? How to start using it starts to sound good.
AC: Female terminals were often quite widely used precisely in this era, which you describe. There were no problems to write: a writer, hetmanka, a member ...
Grazyna Kubica : Even though sometimes redundant, for example, 'woman doctor', 'doctor' would have sufficed, but it was also underlined. Then it was ukobiecenie names and everything. For them, it was obvious, and we must back put it with considerable resistance. I try to fight it, and sensitize it to its students. If more people start to use the female end, it will cease to surprise us. Ceases to be disagreeable. In my book I wanted to refer to the "readers" at least sometimes. That just was not able to win, but I wanted this.
AC: The more the readers will be whether there will be some readers, how do you think? Because the treatment you would be completely understandable to me: a book about women written by women for women.
Grazyna Kubica : My son (age 14.5) read a passage from the book properly appreciated. So maybe someday read it to the end. seems to me that men can be just as interesting to play women's line of tradition, as well as for women. This may be a problem for patriarchal men, because they do not recognize the meaningfulness of this project. Well, they cross the road.
I remember after the show dedicated to Czaplicki, which I did in the Ethnographic Museum in Krakow, I was invited in the framework of the Polish Sociological Association in my Institute to give a presentation on it. After five minutes of my speech, one of my colleagues stood up and asked: but why we actually have to listen to? What she has done this that we have to sit here and listen to her? I am a bit skonfundowałam, but I answered him: 'Cause you know, Curzon Press published her Collected Works in four volumes. And he said: Oh, I understand. It satisfied the demands it! If it all works were published by prestigious publishing house Curzon Press, it is the reason why he can sit and listen to her presentation.
Well, yes it is with these women.
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